Subjects

2008-10-23 [Lothuriel]: Told you I can't spell...

2008-10-23 [Hedda]: I really don't like the furniture reference, but it might just be me? Of course people can take a trip to IKEA and photo everything, and there are places with cooler furnitures I guess.

2008-10-23 [Hedda]: It's a problem with the submissions though. They should be submitted like:

(No number needed) [Hedda]: foot photo reference, hand photo reference, hands photo reference

2008-10-23 [Lothuriel]: Ok, then. I can fix that. I have this camera gif if someone wants to use it to make a badge. If not, then I understand...

2008-10-23 [Hedda]: I've corrected EPRM Action Pose Reference a little now, so that people can submit many pages.

2008-10-23 [Lothuriel]: Ok, thanks!

2008-10-23 [Hedda]: You removed teh furniture contest? I didn't mean you should... Maybe someone likes it.

2008-10-23 [Lothuriel]: Oh, sorry I misunderstood. I will put it back. :P

2008-10-23 [Hedda]: There are some thousands other members on Elftown, so what they think is fun to enter is more important than what I think.

2008-10-23 [Lothuriel]: ^___^ gotcha

2008-10-23 [Hedda]: Actually, I think these three is a good mix. You have one contest for people loving to make pictures of their own body-parts (Like me...), one for people loving to capture objects and one for people who like to arrange complicated things.

2008-10-23 [Lothuriel]: I agree. By the way. I can't seem to find a "how do I" wiki for uploading a folder of images. So, should I take what instructions are on the upload form and put them in suggestions or should I give a play by play on how to do it?

2008-10-23 [Hedda]: Hm: Maybe we should have as a theme to run these three kinds of contests at once? They have overlapping deadlines like this:

feet 27th November
action 27th December (We'll get fighting Santa... Or well)
Furniture 27th January
Face(?) 27th February
Running(?) 27th March
Landskapes(?) 27th April

2008-10-23 [Hedda]: Eh, the upload of a folder of images generally don't cause problems. There is a help-page on how to creating a zip, but people who have a problem with that, can select the single files. Just tell people to go to their house and press that button.

2008-10-23 [Lothuriel]: Hehe, ok then that's what I'll do. It is a lot less time consuming than to have to type and copy and paste a zillion things.

As for the deadlines, that sounds good. We need to come up with some more subjects. I ran out of ideas after a while. I think the face one is good. I will work on getting the suggestions and discussion wikis set up so that we can get this up and running as soon as possible. 

2008-10-23 [Jitter]: Hmm is a new badge needed? The horse one isalready used for sourcerers :)

I started a wiki about a year ago as a record for Reference Pictures: sourcerers donation records

[H3_six] agreed on turning reference pictures official so will the images be transfered there afterwards? :)

I'd love to help running this. I am a big fan of making stock images :3

2008-10-23 [Hedda]: The idea was to link directly to the submitters' pages from the correct Reference pictures page. No transfering, but the pages will be used there directly while the contest is ungoing. 

2008-10-23 [Hedda]: I'm not sure what animal or theme a photo-badge should have, but I really think we should have one. Like "I made a significant contribution to the Reference pictures". People could get that after submitting 100 pictures or some really good pictures (Like winning our contests).

2008-10-23 [Jitter]: Yeah I know what you mean. But I thought that since we already had the horse one for the first reference contest maybe it should remain this one :)

If you want a new one well... Maybe a rat.. You know pack rat-store-stock :P I could make a ratty :3

2008-10-23 [Lothuriel]: Oh a rat would be delightful!!!

2008-10-23 [Jitter]: I'll work on something tomorrow :)

2008-10-25 [Jitter]: Ok I made two animals for new badges. One sugar glider and a mouse. I uploaded them without any writing on them for the time being. We should find a name if we're going to use a new badge. There's also the issue of those who already donated to the horse reference contest and have been badged.

2008-10-25 [Jitter]: I just noticed an annoying line on the left side of the badges. This was in the template. Will fix.

2008-10-25 [Hedda]: I guess it's "Fotógrafo".

2008-10-25 [Jitter]: Yeah but we already have a photographers badge so it should be something for "stock photographer" "stocker" or uhm "referencer" (is that even a word?)

2008-10-26 [Hedda]: Eh, wy have? Oh, yes the Photographers.

I don't think we have to write something different than Photographers actually. Then we can have different animals for the different style of photographers, but they are still Photographers all of them.

2008-10-26 [Jitter]: That's what I'm asking :) How would "reference photographer" be?

2008-10-26 [windowframe]: Why not use "Refografo"? :P Since the Equine badge just combines Equine + photografo.

2008-10-26 [Jitter]: That sounds nice :D

2008-10-26 [Hedda]: That would be "Refógrafo".

Sounds good to me too!

2008-10-26 [Hedda]: "fotógrafo de referencia", by the way.

You can even get a Spaniard to speak it on http://translation2.paralink.com/

2008-10-26 [Jitter]: That's pretty long though :)

Thanks for the link :)

Would Refographo work for it? Or Refotografo?

2008-10-26 [Hedda]: I said: "Refógrafo". Note the ó and f

2008-10-26 [Hedda]: (And yes: "Refógrafo" works in the artificial speaker)

2008-10-26 [Jitter]: *takes notes*

Will fix something tomorrow then :)

2008-10-27 [windowframe]: Don't forget we have that lionfish badge that's not used yet, too.

2008-10-27 [Jitter]: Indeed. But who has the psd for that?

2008-10-27 [Jitter]: Someting like this? (I haven't made any badges before)

2008-10-27 [Lothuriel]: OMG!!! I want him!!! *runs away with cute critter*

2008-10-27 [windowframe]: Do you really need the psd?

2008-10-27 [Jitter]: No. I had just woken up :P Where can I find the unused badge?

2008-10-27 [windowframe]: [368597 (Unknown or private posting)]

2008-10-27 [Jitter]: It's Franzu'ssss :3 <3

ty :)

2008-10-27 [Hedda]: is great!

2008-10-27 [Hedda]: If would of course be even better if he hold a camera. You know, of the Donald Duck type with a big round flash.

2008-10-28 [Lothuriel]: hehe...with a derby?

2008-10-28 [Jitter]: Oooh that would work with the ratty I think! Will see what I can do!

2008-10-28 [Lothuriel]: Tee hee, I love little furry aminals! so when are we planning to start this up?

2008-10-29 [Hedda]: As soon as [Jitter] says she's done with the badge, I was about to say. [Chrysilla] wanted to help out too, so you're a gang now. 

2008-10-29 [Jitter]: I have the camera badge almost ready. But you should know Donald bought a new cam xD

2008-10-29 [Jitter]:
Stroke

No stroke

2008-10-29 [Hedda]: Great! What is a stroke? I don't see any difference. Just tell me which is best.

2008-10-29 [Hedda]: That's Donald's tourist camera, not the one used when he or Mickey Mouse is a professional.

2008-10-29 [windowframe]: Stroke is an outline. The top badge has a thin black outline around the critter, the button doesn't. I say it looks better without - it just looks pixelated in the top image.

2008-10-29 [Lothuriel]: I love it [Jitter]!

Ok, thanks [Hedda]

Girls, just let me know when you want to start

2008-10-29 [Jitter]: Thank you :)

Yes I like the no-stroke better as well :D

I'm game whenever you want :)

2008-10-29 [Jitter]: By the way, I would like to suggest we make the deadlines longer, since stock photographs sometimes requires the proper scenery and/or light etc :)

2008-10-29 [Hedda]: Eh, they have plenty of time! I don't think we should make the feet go any longer because if they can't set it up in three weeks, they can't set it up later.

2008-10-29 [Hedda]: In the future, people will always have 3 months, so that should be OK.

2008-10-29 [Jitter]: Ah I see :) OK :D

2008-10-29 [Hedda]: Anything more to fix here? I think we can get it announced tomorrow or Friday.

2008-10-29 [Hedda]: I think people would do anything to get that cute badge!

2008-10-29 [windowframe]: Friday would be better, since the current news item isn't supposed to change before the 1st, so Friday would only cut that one day short.

2008-10-29 [Hedda]: OK.

But we can always sneak it out a little in the calendar before that.

2008-10-29 [Hedda]: What is Elftown Media Release Form supposed to be?

2008-10-30 [Jitter]: http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/contact/SPL_SampleModelRelease.pdf

That is if you're photographing others and not yourself for the images. I'm sure [Skydancer] will be able to explain it better than me

2008-10-30 [Lothuriel]: Oops, I forgot to fix that. [Jitter] is right. It is a release form for models if you plan to use their photo in a public setting.

2008-11-01 [Hedda]: Gah! I knew this would happen if you make a contest page readable by the crew only! No one could get to this page because it was read protected.

I fixed it now. And there is no need to make a contest-page read-protected. New contests aren't secret!

2008-11-01 [Chimes]: Ooo! I like! *plots*

2008-11-01 [Silver Moon]: how do you export images?

2008-11-01 [Jitter]: You export wikis, not images :)

2008-11-01 [Silver Moon]: lol ok what is the deadline for this because I am planning to go out and take some pictures in a few days of this pretty wooded area?

2008-11-01 [Chimes]: The deadline is written under each of the links...

2008-11-01 [Silver Moon]: ok thnx

2008-11-01 [nathie]: well i have made once a hand reference wiki with hands holding pistol and hands holding sword. nathies photoreferences
it doesn´t fit a category here, but maybe it is useful for you too!

2008-11-01 [windowframe]: I'm sure there will be a category soon which it will fit in, so you should keep watching here. :3

2008-11-01 [Hedda]: Thanks, [nathie]! I added them on hand holding pistol and hands holding sword.

[Jitter], are you counting?

2008-11-01 [Hedda]: [windowframe]: Everyone is welcome to add them to reference pictures right away. If there will be a theme that the pictures fit in later, they can still compete then.

Anyhow: Badges are handed out when people extend reference pictures, regardless if there is a contest or not.

2008-11-01 [windowframe]: Whatever. :3

2008-11-01 [Jitter]: *takes notes feverishly* yes yes!

Badged!

2008-11-02 [Hedda]: "Whatever" is the most rude and disgusting word in the English language! 

2008-11-02 [Byne]: I think I like this.... x3

2008-11-02 [Hedda]: Feet! Action! Furniture!

2008-11-02 [Jitter]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeaKNBqAirM world of whatever xD

2008-11-02 [windowframe]: No, there are far worse, and it's silly to be offended by something like that if you know the other person wasn't trying to be rude.

2008-11-02 [Jitter]: I agree :) I think the ":3" gave off pretty clearly it wasn't meant to be rude :)

2008-11-02 [Hedda]: I wasn't offended. I just hate whatever.

2008-11-02 [windowframe]: well it hates you too! :O

2008-11-02 [Byne]: I dislike when people use it to dismiss you or somethign you've said... But more so when they type it as w/e. Otherwise it doesn't bother me much. x)

2008-11-05 [Lothuriel]: I use that word way too fekin' much...

2008-11-08 [Chimes]: I don't think I ever use it XD

2008-11-09 [Byne]: I'm not sure I use it often either.... But whatever! LOL

2008-11-09 [Chimes]: Ooooo! :P

2008-11-10 [Byne]: I did that just to like.. laugh. I don't usually say it. x)

2008-11-10 [Chimes]: At least... that's what you tell everyone. :P

2008-11-11 [Duke Devlin]: 'LOL'? :P [Chimes], my dear, I remember when you used to say that one. :P
But yes, I must agree with you all, 'whatever' is a rubbish word. :P But can be very effective. >:) *muscles in on wiki*
*doesn't actually* ;.;
<3

2008-11-11 [Chimes]: I still say 'lol' :P I am not ashamed!

2008-11-11 [Duke Devlin]: Well you should be! :P 'Tis shameful. *Shakes head sadly* :P
Just kidding deary, you say it all you like. I shall just cringe inwardly. ;)

2008-11-12 [Alexi Ice]: Hmmmm...I don't know what exactly I could do with the current competitons, maybe I could wait and see what else comes up here...^^ Though if I am the only entrant, I would surly win.

Do you need in assistance in upkeeping these pages or something? I could always volenteer my services...^^

2008-11-12 [Hedda]: Come on! We know you have feet!

Take some shots on other people too!

2008-11-12 [Alexi Ice]: LOL ^^ OF course I do, but that doesn't make them less creepy to look at!!! hehehe...I shall give it a try!!!!! I am always willing to try.

2008-11-12 [Jitter]: My feet look horrible at the moment so I'll probably jump in at the last moment

2008-11-12 [Hedda]: Horrible feet photos is free!

2008-11-12 [Alexi Ice]: Lol I think I shall take pictures of all kinds of feet, not just my own! I think my brother would be willing to model for me! ^^ I think I could do the furniture one as well...

2008-11-13 [Skydancer]: Hmmm Heres the hard part. Free. I have literally thousands and thousands of images, but being able to offer them with no limits can be tough. For instance, did you know if there are people in an image that can be recognized, even if its from a public event, you can use them for editorial purposes or your own collections, but you cannot use them for any other purpose since you do not have releases from the people? Thus you do not have the rights to offer them as stock or any other usage to another person. Editorial is as far as you can go legally.

2008-11-13 [Skydancer]: Of course if you are willing to put yourself out there, and are of legal age so you can legally do so, and you really do not care what anyone might do with your image, ever, anywhere or anything, then you can do that certainly. But realize you will never ever be able to take it back once they are out there. Just a bit of caution to think about.

2008-11-13 [Alexi Ice]: It is a valid point, of course...but putting picture up on any site posses the same problems, no picture is ever 'protected' from people if it is on the internet, sure there is a chance for you to catch a criminal if they steal your pictures but they could always download it to there harddrive and do whatever they wish with it. 'Privacy' doesn't exist on the internet. I agree with you on the liability part though, of putting pictures up of other people but...I don't necessarily think that anyone is going to recognize my feet from a simple photo, so I don't see any harm in it. So I think that it is always good to be cautious but I don't see the harm in participating in this competition...

2008-11-13 [Skydancer]: Oh, not at all talking about feet. Rather talking about the idea of "free unrestricted images" which may be recognizable of a person, and what could happen to those images. A very simple example. A community is running an anti drug education program and uses your photo in a brochure as a drug user. Since you put no restrictions on your photo, you cannot tell them they cannot use it in anyway they wish.

2008-11-13 [Alexi Ice]: True, but if you put you image up then you should be prepared for what people will do with you image. That is just a risk that people may or may not be willing to take. I don't really understand your arguments motives...

2008-11-13 [Skydancer]: Oh, thats easy enough. One, I was not speaking directly to you in any sense, but to the wiki and community as a whole, and two, chatting with some of my models and other photographers, we realized that folk might not realize just what it is they are agreeing too when they put their images into the public domain, and the legal implications. I have literally thousands of art reference images on elftown for artists to use. I also have the wikis all carefully worded as to just what you can and cannot do with the images. This is more than references, this is giving your images out to be used by anyone, anywhere, for any purpose. Commercial or otherwise. I have been sorting through what I have in my libraries to see what I might be able to offer, and I am frankly coming up a bit sparse as most of my work is either already published or used in work, contains recognizable people, or are of my models, none of which want their images out there for anyone to use with no restrictions. And thinking about it, I don't really want my own image out there with no restrictions either. As a native american, I would not want my image used in an ad for alcohol for instance.

2008-11-13 [Chimes]: If you hide the eyes in a photo no one can sue you for using it. I learnt that in a photography lesson.

2008-11-13 [Skydancer]: Thats only true in some countries. :) But regardless, I have said what I felt needed to be said, and only desire that folks have full knowledge and understand of what they are doing when they release their images so they are making a truly informed decision. :)

2008-11-13 [Chimes]: Really? We weren't told that part. :P I'm still a lowly student, I lack proper knowledge. XD

Very noble of you. :] Many wouldn't.

2008-11-13 [Skydancer]: There is a very wide gulf between editorial use where you might for instance be doing a news story and your country requires you to block out the identity of someone in the article if you do not have a release from them for your magazine, and using someone in work that is derivative, for commercial or any publication, be it hard copy or web based. Part of the problem of course are the various laws in the various countries since we are a very international community here, even though the server itself may be based in a particular country. So generally you have to learn the laws in your own country, then if you are considering doing serious publication of your work in other countries, its a good idea to understand the legal and copyright situation there if you possibly can.

I think I do need to be a bit more clear here though. In no case am I speaking of any of the folk here being sued or legally liable for using stock material. What I am saying is that if "YOUR STOCK" contains your own image, that of your children, siblings, neighbors or even just off the street, then you may be placing those images out there for anyone to use in anyway whatsoever and once you release them to public domain, you have no recourse, no matter what may be done with them. And of course if you do not have the rights from the people in the photo, then quite likely you don't have the right to release them in the first place. Only your own photo of yourself do you really have the right to release, or images of common and generally generic scenes such as landscapes, animals, sky, etc. In some cases, they have made it a copyright violation to even have brand names in a photo that you place out there commercially.

2008-11-13 [Alexi Ice]: I know you were not talking to me directly but your arguments seem to be misplaced. If you want to take up the legal implications of donating your photographs (or anyones for that matter) up with someone then it shouldn't be here. This is a photo reference competition, and in no way forces people to enter. If you have a problem with releasing your photos then simply don't release them and leave it at that. The people here on elftown should already know the risks and precautions that come with releasing your photograph to be freely used by the general public, if this were an art contest then you would run into the same general risks. If you want to adress the Elftown Public then I suggest that you take your argument somewhere more productive, like the Town Herald or even with [Hedda] himself if it is something you feel strongly about. The people who enter this competiton do it for the sake of art, for the badge, or just to get there photography skills a little recognition. Are you saying that the legitimacy of this contest should be put into question because the people posting photographs here may or may not know what they are getting themselves into and may or may not know the legal obligations that accompany releasing your photos in a contest such as this where anyone and everyone holds a higher right to it then the artist themselves simply because they did not slap a copyright symbol on there picture before they released it?

2008-11-13 [Skydancer]: **The people here on elftown should already know the risks and precautions that come with releasing your photograph to be freely used by the general public,** Except that they don't. And as far as it being a competition, its not really, its just a way to advertise and make it well publicized across Elftown, which is not a bad thing. I think your logic is a bit flawed if any one ever wishes to have more clarity about what they may be getting themselves into and you have a problem with them knowing that. You can have just as much a chance of getting a pretty badge with a few hundred photos of horses as you can with people. I am all for having more reference images. As I stated earlier, I have put thousands out of my own library here on Elftown. What I "am" concerned about, is the "public Domain" unrestricted usage part. Attacking me does not change the law, nor reality.

2008-11-13 [moira hawthorne]: skydancer you are arguing with a teen... dont you know 'we' dont know anything ... 'we' should be rolled over into our graves as anything that happened before 'their' discovery of it is immaterial and of no importance... its only after they discover it does it become real!

2008-11-13 [Alexi Ice]: I am not attacking you in any way shape and I do apologize if it looks that way, but if you wish to talk about reality then think about this. I could pick a random profile with an image that I happened to like, (not that I would do this, but we all know that it has been done before) copy paste the image to my own computers hard drive and do virtually whatever I wanted with it with little to no consequences, because the internet is connected to a number of communitys and it is impossible to keep up with what is happening once you have posted a picture up on *any* site, much less Elftown which is a fairly protected site. If people do not know these risks then as I have also said, stating them here is not going to get much attention to your cause in the long run, especially considering this competition in and of itself so far only seems to be haunted by council members...excluding myself, of course. IF you want the Elftown public to recognize and formally commit themselves to legal obligations acompaning releasing 'free' refernce pictures to be used by the public then you may want to talk about this somewhere you can get more attention to the idea, because most elftowners are ill-informed or they just don't care and I think the point you are trying to make is a good one, I just don't think that bringing it up here in particular is really helping anyone...

2008-11-13 [moira hawthorne]: Mitsuki... your arguement that this is like any other art contest on ET is incorrect.... art isnt released to the "public Domain" for unrestricted usage... its owned by the artist and displayed here on ET.... take it anywhere else or use it anywhere else is art thief!

2008-11-13 [Skydancer]: :) Its quite alright Mitsuki, as the folk that really need most to know and understand this are those that created this in the first place. Those very council members that haunt here. :) And Hedda and I have a great relationship, I respect him and all his work, and I feel he has the same respect for me. :)

2008-11-13 [Skydancer]: This is getting some very nice publicity for Elftown too as we discuss this whole thing on DA amoungst a few dozen photographers, models and artists that might very well because of it, join elftown and contribute.

2008-11-13 [Alexi Ice]: Alright, no more arguing and I apologize for stirring this whole thing up especially since my opinion on the matter seems un-warrented. My argument may have been un-justified, but as a note ;
yes that is art theift but you can not tell me that it has not been done before. Gaurds especially know that art theift is rampant not just here but on the internet in general, and there is little to nothing that the artist having their work stolen from them is able to do about it.

2008-11-13 [Alexi Ice]: And as another note, Skydancer, you are a very good at making your point ^^ I hold a high respect for people who can argue with me and win *bows* you are a very interesting person, and I hope to hear more about what you have to say.

2008-11-13 [Chimes]: I love it when debates end nicely. :]

2008-11-13 [Alexi Ice]: Lol. ^^ I don't like to argue to make enemies, I like to argue to make points.

2008-11-13 [Skydancer]: Debates can be a good thing when everyone respects the others and remain civilized. :) I have a ton of photos to add to this thing or to references, I just have to incude the restrictions for the models so they will not be added to this particular venture as they are not public domain though they are freely usable by any elftown artist. I have most of my stock from deviant art duplicated here too for that matter and rather a lot that is exclusive to Elftown. In reality, Elftown has one of the largest references for serious artists anywhere on the web and they are free, unlike many sites that have nude and figure references but you have to pay a subscription for, and frankly have a lot of material that belongs more on a soft porn site than on an arts site. Ours I am happy to say is serious, even when it is adult, its artful, and with the concept of adult art.

Hedda may need more storage if we keep this up. :)

2008-11-13 [Chimes]: I was browsing your stock account on DA the other day, as it happens. I may use some of it in my work. :] I likes it.

2008-11-13 [Skydancer]: Brilliant. Between what I have here and whats over there, I think I top 4 thousand images for reference.

2008-11-13 [Alexi Ice]: Lol, I don't think Hedda would mind making a little more storage space ^^ We are an art community after all, so I don't see why he wouldn't welcome the art with open arms!

And yes, debates begin to scare me when they loose the civil aspect.

I have seen art like that, art that made me stop and go 'is this beautiful, or nasty?' There are a number of people I have seen, even here on elftown who cross the line between art and pornography. The body is an art form, but there are definatly reasonable boundries to this idea, boundries to which some people choose to ignore.

2008-11-13 [Skydancer]: Everyone has their viewpoint and I try to respect it as best I can, without violating my own ethics and beliefs. There is a true erotic art, just not many are able to pull it off or do it well. Personally I really like the lighter, happier, more fun art, but that does not in anyway detract from the more serious or the darker art. Its all good, expressive work. Only those that exploit really bother me very much, and that is the nature of the world, that people often will, when given the choice, exploit rather than respect. This community is full of the rare and much prized type that generally really do respect and don't exploit the community or the artists or models or resources we try to bring to them.